The Fox Cities Transit Commission met 05/24/2022. One of the items they took up was a request to approve a Contract for Professional Services for Transit Center Needs Assessment and Master Plan to LHB Corporation for a total amount not to exceed $179,348.75. The commission voted to approve the request, and Valley Transit General Manager Ron McDonald noted during the meeting that “This is a project that we would use grant money that we already have on hand. We wouldn’t be asking the local municipalities for additional expenditures beyond we already have in place.”
Valley Transit General Manage McDonald started out by explaining the request to the commission in more detail. For a number of years, the transit center had worked really well, but it needs significant updating and some changes. He said that it was time to look at the future of the transit center and what they could do to make it better for the passengers, the community, and the downtown in general.
They advertised for a transit needs and assessment study and some consulting firms sent in proposals. They interviewed two architects and ultimately decided to recommend awarding the project to LHB Corporation. They are sub-contracted with SRF and one other agency that he did not name.
He said that what stuck out with LHB was their recent and extensive experience in transit joint developments. Transit join developments were multi-use facilities with a joint public/private partnership. For the transit center in Appleton, they were envisioning having a drive-through first level for the transit center which would hopefully be fully enclosed, then above that there would be some sort of mixed-use development such as housing, retail, daycare, or office space.
In terms of cost, he said, “This is a project that we would use grant money that we already have on hand. We wouldn’t be asking the local municipalities for additional expenditures beyond we already have in place.”
Regarding the study itself he said that one of the things they had asked the consultant to look at was whether the current location was still the best site to have the transit center and, if not, where should the transit center be. “I will tell you that I believe we’re in the best location that we should be.” But they asked the consultant to look at alternatives because if they were going to do the study, they wanted to make sure they were in the right place, but he assumed they would say the current location was the right location for a number of reasons. The City of Appleton and the Federal Transit Administration own that property and it’s already off the tax rolls, so it would make sense to stay there rather than try to take another piece of property off the tax rolls. Additionally, there was not much vacant space available in downtown.
Once the site was decided upon, they would start doing some environmental work and make sure that they followed the correct process as laid out in the National Environmental Policy Act.
He expected that, at that same time, Appleton’s Community and Economic Development Department would put out a Request For Proposals to developers to see who might be interested in doing the project and also start having discussions with potential developers as to what would be needed to attract private sector partners.
He noted that this was just the needs assessment and master plan. He thought if the project itself was completed in 5 years, it would be pretty good because it was going to take a lot of time to do that. He thought the study was a good way to start having discussions about how to get the project accomplished without significantly impacting all the municipal partners including the city of Appleton, because local municipalities were not going to have a lot of money to throw at a project like the one envisioned.
He opened things up for questions.
One commission member asked how long the study would take.
General Manager McDonald thought the majority of the study would be completed by the end of the year to facilitate being able to apply for grants when they become available in 2023. He added that they had asked LHB to participate in the grant process because LHB had been successful obtaining grants for other projects. He expected they would be doing working with Valley Transit into 2023.
A commission member asked what timeframe they would be looking at for the needs assessment. Would it be a 20-year assessment, taking them to the early 2040s?
General Manager McDonald said they hadn’t got that far into the discussion yet. He thought it would go further out that 20 years because it was going to be a big investment, particularly from the private sector. If a private sector entity was going to be involved, they would want to some time to get a return on their investment.
Commission Chairman George Dearborn mentioned the potential of passenger rail. He assumed the needs assessment would include that in their equation.
General Manager McDonald confirmed that would be part of the discussion.
A commission member asked what kind of private developer the Valley Transit anticipated negotiating with. He mentioned that the Kaukauna Public Library location had been sold to a developer who now rents the space to the public library. He was curious if something similar was on the table with the transit center.
General Manager McDonald said that the transit center site was owned jointly by the City of Appleton (20%) and the Federal Transit Administration (80%). There were two basic options. They could apply for grants and, for a project of this sort, typically Valley Transit with the Federal Transit Administration would construct the first level for the project and then the private developer would come in and develop above the transit section. The other option was that they could sell the property but they would have to maintain the ability or the rights continue using it for transit purposes. For that reason, he thought it was more likely that they would retain ownership of the property.
Chairman Dearborn thought there were a lot of communities with examples of public private partnerships and said that they saw that in the Chicago area as well as a lot of the larger communities.
General Manager McDonald said one of the most widely recognized developments of this type in the state of Wisconsin was the Grand River Station in La Crosse. He said someone driving down the street wouldn’t even know that it was a transit center because it was completely enclosed with doors that the buses drive through, then on the upper level they offer different income levels of housing.
Eau Claire had such a project currently under construction, and Duluth Transit also had a similar project although it did not include housing.
Alderperson Israel Del Toro (District 4) asked, given the proximity of the transit center to the soon to be remodeled library, if the aesthetics or “mission” of the transit center would try to match that of the library. He mentioned sustainability and energy efficiency and thought it would be nice for the transit center to follow those guidelines and collaborate with the library designers. [I thought his use of the word “mission” was confusing. The mission of the library is to broadly speaking provide access to books, computers, meeting spaces, and some educational opportunities. The mission of the transit center is to get people from Point A to Point B. Not a ton of overlap there.]
General Manager McDonald responded that they would be looking for energy efficiencies and green initiatives in the project. He didn’t know if they would pursue a LEED certification because that sometimes becomes more costly than it’s worth. They would, however, try to get all the efficiencies they could because for a project like this they wanted to reduce their energy consumption and operating costs. The transit center project was part of the discussion of the College Avenue North Study that was going on. That area also included the library, and he expected the transit center would look at what the library was going and see what was working well within the area.
He added that Valley Transit had been working alongside the City of Appleton, particularly with the Facilities Department, to get to this point, and the city was already involved very deeply.
Alderperson Maiyoua Thao (District 7) said that she thought this was a good opportunity, particularly with the new library coming, to enhance the area and make public transit better for the community.
General Manager McDonald said that it looks like the transit center has a very small footprint, but their property actually goes from Oneida Street all the way to the Yellow Parking Ramp. The roadway between the transit center and the parking ramp is not actually a public right of way, even if a lot of cars cut through there, and is transit property. The green space to the north of the transit center that used to be the location of the Menn Law Firm is currently owned by the Appleton Redevelopment Authority.
If this transit center project came to fruition, he assumed that they would probably want to purchase that property from the Redevelopment Authority so that they could expand to the north. The final structure could go from Washington Street to Franklin Street and from Oneida Street over to the Yellow Parking Ramp which would be a larger footprint than that of the current transit center. He said they would be directly connected to the parking ramp, so people could keep their cars there. There would also be some people who didn’t have a car and could have their apartment right above the transit center. “I think there’s some opportunities maybe for a day care center or things like that.” He said there had previously been a daycare center downtown, but there was not one anymore. [I don’t know what he was talking about re: no childcare being downtown anymore. St. Paul’s Early Childhood Center is literally one block away from the transit center, the YMCA is right downtown, the Community Nursery School is over on College and Mead.]
He went on to say that one of the biggest things they hear from people is that they would take the bus more but they have to get their kids to daycare before they go to work. If they remove that barrier, perhaps by having a daycare center above the transit center, parents could ride the bus, drops their kids off at daycare, and go to work downtown. It would open a whole lot of possibilities and make Valley Transit a more viable transit system throughout the Fox Cities by having that nucleus downtown.
A commission member asked where the parking lot for the new library would be and if the entrance to it would still be off of Oneida Street between the library and the transit center.
General Manager McDonald said he thought there would still be an entrance on Oneida Street and noted that the parking lot was going to be 1/4 to 1/3 of its current size. A lot more library patrons would be utilizing the Yellow Parking Ramp so part of a new transit center would be finding a friendly way for pedestrians to either move through or around the structure.
Chairman Dearborn thought the linkages made a lot of sense. With a future anticipated connection to the airport, the possibility of a passenger rail, and housing, he thought it was an ideal location and could be very marketable for the long term.
There were no further comments or questions and the Transit Commission voted to approve the contract for a Transit Center Needs Assessment and Master Plan.
View full meeting details and video here: https://cityofappleton.legistar.com/MeetingDetail.aspx?ID=959035&GUID=33754A62-3A6A-47CB-AC2D-9F0CE04BD9D7
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