There was a pretty interesting discussion that happened during the 04/14/2021 Safety and Licensing Committee meeting surrounding the Resolution Condemning Xenophobia, Racism, and Violence Against The Asian Pacific Islander DesiAmerican (APIDA) Community. The discussion revolved around what the appropriate scope of the Common Council is and how that relates to combating racism.
First off, some brief background information may be useful. Multiple alderpersons participated in the discussion but only 4 were on the committee and able to vote.
William Siebers (District 1) – Committee Chair
Katie Van Zeeland (District 5)
Matthew Reed (District 8)
Alex Schultz (District 9)
Within the Appleton community, crimes against Asian Americans have not gone up but negative comments and slurs directed at Asian Americans within Appleton have increased.
On a statewide level, Wisconsin’s Attorney General Josh Kaul has condemned racist acts against Asian Americans and has met with community leaders working to combat racism against the Asian American and Pacific Islander community.
With that background, we can start the recap.
Three community members spoke in favor of the resolution.
[I was a little surprised that, outside of Alderperson Thao, no Hmong community leaders came to voice their support for the resolution.]
Gary Crevier President of Esther spoke first. He said Esther is a faith based, social justice organization that addresses some of the systemic causes of the injustices that we see around us. He supported the resolution which was drawing attention to the 150% increase in the attacks nationally against members of the Asian American and Pacific Islander community and its impact in the Fox Valley. Because of the fear factor and in some cases the language barrier, some incidents of harassment to this community here in the Valley have gone unreported. He listed rocks or bricks through windows of a business, the defacing of property, the trashing of bathrooms within businesses, and a note on one’s home telling them to go back to where they came from. He said this resolution would be a proactive gesture with the hope of alleviating some of that fear and an attempt to avoid more tragic occurrences here in the Valley. The resolution would be an ongoing, wholesome, relationship building effort with the Asian community. He acknowledged that there are other ethnic groups being victimized by racism in our country as well, but this specific resolution speaks to a specific concern of a specific community in our midst based on specific unsettling truths. He trusted that we would be humble enough to listen with ears of compassion and accept this resolution.
Amanda Stuck, lifelong resident of Appleton and former state Assembly representative also spoke. She supported this resolution because as a product of this city and of the Appleton Area School District she knows that we can do better. She relayed a story from when she was in 3rd grade. On a field trip she and her friends were talking about the boys they liked and she happened to mention that she liked a boy in their class named Tong who was Asian. She stated that the teacher pulled her aside and told her that it was inappropriate because Amanda was white and Tong was not. [It is shocking to me that sometime around 1990-1992 there was an AASD teacher promoting anti-miscegenation to students.] She said that, if we’re honest, many of us have had those same kinds of experiences or heard people around us talk about members of the Asian community in stereotypical ways. It happens right here even in our community, and all those little things add up to larger acts of violence. That’s why it’s important even at the local level to push back and send a clear message that we will not tolerate that and that we are a community that wants everybody to feel at home and accepted here and that we honor all that the Asian community brings to our community. She said that our community is better because of the festivals, the foods, the businesses, and the people in our community who are from the Asian community. They make our community better and stronger, and it is important that we stand up and make it clear that that’s where we stand and that we won’t accept anything less.
Jeanne Roberts, President of the Appleton League of Women Voters Appleton also spoke in favor of the resolution. From the League’s point of view this all began when a member of their Diversity Equity and Inclusion committee who is an elder and a peacemaker in the Brothertown Tribe asked what was being done by the League to show support for the Asian American and Pacific Islander community in the midst of the increase in violence over the past year. She said she used the word “increase” because violence toward the AAPI community is nothing new. As a League they decided it was best to speak with people in the community to ask what they could do to show support. She spoke with a Chinese American friend and a Hmong American friend and that’s why she was there speaking in favor of this resolution and also why the League of Women Voters is going to be doing an educational program this summer on the history of racism against Asians in this country. She said that in 1854 the California Supreme Court ruled that an Asian person could not testify against a white person in court. In 1871, 17 Asian young men were lynched and hanged across several downtown Los Angeles sites. And in 1881 the Chinese Exclusion Act was passed. It was the first law in the United States that barred immigration solely based on race. It was passed in 1882 and supposed to run out in 10 years but did not get overturned until 1943. With this act not only were Chinese people not allowed to become citizens, but Chinese American citizens who left the country were required to obtain recertification before being allowed back in the US. She said we all know about the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII, but most of us probably don’t know about a young man by the name of Vincent Chin in 1982. He was beaten by two white men on the night before he was supposed to get married. The white men picked a fight with him because they blamed the Japanese for taking their auto industry jobs. The men beat Mr. Chin with a baseball bat and he died several days later. The judge gave the men probation and a $3,000 fine. She said that in a survey from the Pew Research Center 3 in 10 Asian Americans reported having been subjected to racist slurs or jokes since the onset of Covid 19. Another survey reported in a Harvard review indicated that anti-Asian hate crimes had more than doubled between 2019 and 2020. Locally one of her Asian American friends told her that she doesn’t come downtown on Friday nights due to fears of racism. Another Asian American friend told her that her office window had been broken and that animal entrails had been thrown on her front lawn. Jeanne said that as she was driving home the day before, one of her neighbors had paused at a Hmong family’s front lawn so their dogs could do their business there instead of on their own. She finished up by saying that, since 1978, May has been designated as Asian American and Pacific Islanders Heritage Month. Passing this resolution especially during these times of increased hate and violence towards the AAPI community would be a way to start the celebration in Appleton, show our support for Appleton’s Asian American community, and let all of them know that they are welcome here and that there is no hate toward them here.
Alderperson Maiyoua Thao (District 7) said she submitted this resolution along with her colleagues. She wanted to praise the Appleton community and said that we are doing a great job. She appreciated Chief Thomas for sending out the Hate Has No Home Here facebook message after the shootings in Atlanta, Georgia. She wanted to put this resolution out so that we remember that our Asian communities are very important in Appleton. She said that after the Atlanta shootings Asian members of the community feel scared and some may not be able to tell their neighbors or friends about that. Passing this resolution would be a way to be proactive locally and show why we are a community that is known as one of the best and safest cities to live in. Passing this would be a way for Asian residents to feel that they are safe living in Appleton with everyone.
Chief Todd Thomas wanted to thank Alderperson Thao and the other alderpersons who helped submit this. He said that since the incident in Atlanta, they have had a lot of conversations with community members from the southeast asian community and the Hmong community. A good, long-time friend of his and told him stories of upsetting things that have happened to him in Appleton. He said we don’t have to go back to the 1800s or the 1940s; it’s happening in 2020 2021. He thought it was important that the city makes this statement from all of us and lets our community members know how valued they are and how appreciated they are and that we’re their friends. He said there are a lot of resolutions that come forward, but he thought this was an extremely important one at an extremely important time.
Once public comment was done, they moved on to committee discussion.
Alderperson William Siebers (District 1) said he had no problem with any resolution that pertains to the city of Appleton in terms of what the city can do. He also thought that what the League of Women Voters was planning regarding education was awesome. He appreciated the police and the mayor standing up and saying “Hate Has No Home” in the city.
However, he had concerns when they started saying such things as “that we need to encourage the attorney general of the United States to do his or her job” or “we encourage leaders of other cities of the United States”. He thought they needed to focus on Appleton rather than going globally. He liked the idea of supporting the Asian population in Appleton and being an example, but he struggled in terms of telling someone in Washington DC how to do their job, and he didn’t think he could do it anyway because he didn’t think the Attorney General would listen to him anyway. So he struggled with this resolution where it goes outside of what he considers city boundaries.
Alderperson Katie Van Zeeland (District 5) said that the portion in the resolution about the attorney general was referencing the attorney general of the state of Wisconsin. It says actually, “encourages the Attorney General to work with State and local agencies and the Asian American and Pacific Islander community-based organizations to prevent discrimination” She wanted to make sure that everyone was on the same page. She said the resolution is just Appleton telling the state that we would like them to work with local organizations. She felt that was the Common Council’s place. Appleton has a very large Hmong population comparative to other locations. That doesn’t mean that other cities may not have this situation or they may not be aware of it like we do. She appreciated leaving that portion in the resolution.
Alderperson Siebers thanked her for that clarification.
Alderperson Thao appreciated that he brought his concern up. She said his desire to focus on Appleton was great because we are known as leaders. People look up to Appleton and want to follow our example. She mentioned our diversity coordinator and said other cities follow Appleton and come ask how we do such good things.
She felt the language should remain in the resolution. They could send this resolution to the Attorney General and let him know that Appleton is proactive and is tackling this head on. They could “share with him or her” that they are doing this and looking forward to this.
Alderperson Siebers asked if there were more comments or a motion.
Alderperson Van Zeeland moved to approve. It was seconded by Alderperson Alex Schultz (District 9).
Alderperson Siebers then made a statement that I have transcribed in full. “I’m fearful in terms of what’s gonna happen here, um, and I don’t want this to, to get out in a negative way. My intent initially was to abstain. Because of my concerns in regards to going beyond the boundaries of the city of Appleton in regards to this resolution, but I do want–I don’t want any misconceptions in terms of this Council or this committee stands in regards to the Asian population. So anyways, with that in mind, I’m gonna take a vote.”
Before the vote, Alderperson Matt Reed (District 8) asked to speak. He said, “This is obviously a touchy subject and, um, I can think we can, with a great amount of confidence, say there’s nobody in this community, in this state, probably in this country other than a few crazy people that want to see racism of any sort with anybody and any violence. And so we are strongly in support of the bones of this. The issue issue seems to be the scope of what we are supposed to deal with as a Council and this is a….this is a–again, this is a touchy subject, I don’t want to come off in any way as insensitive, but this comes off as a ‘pat ourselves on the back look how great we are’ resolution that doesn’t really have any teeth to it. It doesn’t really do anything. I would expect the attorney general of Wisconsin to do these things anyway. It’s his job. I don’t think he needs our encouragement to do that. Again, like, Alderman Siebers said, the touchy part of this is I’m not going to vote against this because of course I agree with in essence what this says. The problem is what’s our job as–what were we elected to do? Were we elected to take up every social issue under the sun and deal with everything that might come up? No, we’re dealing with pertinent things in the city and, uh, and so I will abstain. I’m not gonna vote against it because I don’t think I should, but I will abstain. So, thank you.”
Alderperson Van Zeeland then spoke. “I just wanted too–I’m not sure how to say this because I’m not going to speak for the Hmong community, but what I understood when I spoke with Alderperson Thao and with other members of the community is that they were asking us to speak on their behalf. So when we say ‘we are encouraging the Attorney General to reach out to these organizations’ we are doing that because our constituents in the community of Appleton has asked us to do that for them. So I don’t see it as an order; I see it as the words that have been given to us from the community that we represent. I just wanted to make that clear. Thank you.”
Alderperson Schultz said, “I just want to echo those comments. Occasionally we as a committee and as a Council take some stands on social issues and I can understand why some of my colleagues and the chair have reservations about making particular statements in resolutions that pertain to how the leadership at the state and federal level do their job but, again, this is a recommendation and encouragement for them to think about what we’re doing in Appleton. You know, we had a pretty significant, and have had significant hate crimes, and the one that was–really shook me to core last fall, um, leads me to believe that as a city we need to make a very solid statement and that’s what this resolution does not only for these communities but others who find themselves in similar situations, um, being judged from their racial or social standing and I don’t think it does us any harm to say that as a city, um, a city where we rank high on a place to live that this is reason why we rank as such a great place to live. That we take these things very seriously and we have no tolerance for this kind of thing in our community and when it does happen, um, we take great offense. So, and I do appreciate the positions and the desire to abstain from this vote because of maybe the breadth of what we’re suggesting, um, you know, state leadership does, but, again, it’s really just a recommendation and calling to attention that Appleton as one of the leaders in the city–in the state of Wisconsin–takes these things seriously and hopes that the rest of the state will follow suit. Thank you.”
Alderperson Michael Smith (District 10) suggested that the resolution be changed to clarify that it is referring to the “State of Wisconsin Attorney General” instead of just the “Attorney General”. “History will look at the words that are there so the intent goes out the window. It’s what is read, not the intent.”
He also said that the resolution reads like a proclamation and he wondered what status a resolution has if it’s passed by the Council vs the mayor making a proclamation on behalf of the city?
Alderperson Vered Meltzer (District 2) said the mayor has already made statements on this and that the Council had been asked by their constituents to make a bigger and stronger statement that came from more than just the mayor. The mayor and Council are two separate bodies so to show that they really all support this it’s important for it to come through the Council. Viewing this as a proclamation from the Council was a great way to consider it. The mayor is not the only one who can proclaim, and the gravity of this situation calls upon them to proclaim together.
Alderperson Denise Fenton (District 6) wholeheartedly agreed with Alderperson Meltzer. She wanted to leave them with one quote: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for goodness to do nothing.” She said they want to do more than nothing here. Alderperson Thao had been approached by members of her family and community who had been threatened and had acts perpetrated on them so she came to some of the other alderpersons, and they thought about several things. The mayor had already issued a proclamation. The APD had issued a statement. They thought about issuing a press release from Council members, but their feeling based on the feelings of the community and their colleagues was that they needed to do something strong, they needed to have it for the city, it needed to be beyond the city, and they needed to let the state and other communities know what Appleton thinks.
Alderperson Schultz made a motion to amend the resolution to include the language “Attorney General of Wisconsin” so it would be clear for historical fact.
That motion passed unanimously with both Alderperson Siebers and Reed voting for it also. As Alderperson Reed said, “If we have it in there we might as well have the right language”.
They then voted on the resolution itself and Alderperson Siebers said that with all due respect to Alderperson Thao, he was going to change his course of action and vote for this to get it out of committee on a positive vote.
If he had not done that it would have been 2 ayes and 2 abstentions. Instead, only Alderperson Reed abstained.
[On a practical level it seems like a more effective way to get Attorney General Kaul to work with AAPI community organizations would be to just call his office and talk to him. This resolution has 6 co-sponsors. It seems likely to me that if they called the Department of Justice and explained that Appleton has a vibrant Hmong community that is interested in talking with him and working with him to combat discrimination and promote education and–by the way–six Common Council members also want to be involved, that the AG would be interested and at least have an assistant meet with them. Given that he’s already met with community leaders and condemned anti-Asian hate, he’s already at least somewhat on the same page as the resolution cosponsors. They could also call up Assembly Representatives Lee Snodgrass and Rachel Cabral-Guevera and try to involve them somehow. While passing a resolution may have value, it seems so much more passive than just calling the State Attorney General up and talking to him directly.]
View full meeting details here: https://cityofappleton.legistar.com/MeetingDetail.aspx?ID=844718&GUID=ACFDC86B-4B88-44E7-AC82-336B5D0184E8&Options=info|&Search=
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